consider that and we can be itter or we can get together and work and maximize the assets we do have. them thehat and made richest tribe in the nation. at the people, places and events of native american history is part of ies tour.city's you can see more on our website, www.c-span.org. click on the series tab and then r.ick on c-span cities tou yesterday, president obama pardoned two turkeys. .heir names, mac & cheese they came from ohio and the

president was joined by his daughters at the ceremony. >> good afternoon, everybody. please have a seat. we normally do this outside but the weather is not cooperating today. sasha, i of melia and went to wish everybody an early happy thing things anksgiving. i'm here to announce the most talked about executive action this month. i'm taking an action fully within my legal authority, the same kind of action taken by democrats and republicans before me, to spare the lives of two cheese. mac and from a terrible and delicious fate. joel, thethank

president of the national turkey federation, gary cooper, the le.irman and his son, co give them a big round of applause. [applause] he's getting pretty excited about this. thanks to all of those who voted online to pick the national giving turkey -- national things giving turkey -- thanks giving turkey. and you are turkey named after a side dish, your chances of escaping thanks thanksgiving -- dinner are really low. these guys beat the odds.

turkeys have always had powerful allies. --jamin franklin once worked wished the bald eagle had not been chosen to represent our country. he is a bird of bad moral character. the turkey is in comparison a much more respect will bird. -- respectable bird. these two turkeys will get to live out the rest of their lives respectively at a virginia state with 10,000 acres of roaming space. i know some will call this amnesty. [laughter] don't worry, there is plenty of turkey to go around. ,ater this afternoon, michelle melia and sasha and i will take two turkeys who did not make the cut to a local food pantry that works year-round to make sure that folks in our nations capital have food and clothes -- food to eat and clothes to wear. i want to thank the turkey farm in pennsylvania for donating

those birds for six years and narrow. and for making thanksgiving dinner possible for our fellow americans. finally, the washington post questioned the wisdom of the whole turkey pardon tradition. typically, on the day before thanks giving, the man who makes decision about wars, virus outbreaks, terrorism and a others chooses to pardon a single turkey plus an alternate. little puzzling that i do this every year. itill say that i enjoy because, with all the bad stuff that's worlds around in this nice once in a while to say happy thanksgiving.

tomorrow is a special moment when we give thanks for people we love and we are mindful of the incredible blessings that we have received. we remember the folks who cannot spend their holidays at home, especially the brave men and women in uniform. thatlebrate a holiday celebrates this nation's generosity. our commitment to make a country out.ich no one is left because i know everyone wants to get out of town, mac and she's included, it's time for me to engage in the official act let's see what we can do with cheese. come on, girls. come on. you have to be right next to me. are we ready?

cheese, you're hereby pardoned from the thanksgiving dinner table. congratulations. gobble gobble. [applause] he looks pretty happy about it. to take cheese down, that's ok. i will tell you, turkeys don't have the best looking at. -- best looking heads [laughter] . they are red white and blue. it. patriotism element to absolutely. you guys want to pet him? >> nah [laughter] .

you.od to see happy thanksgiving. [applause] >> continuing their annual thanks giving tradition, president obama and his family volunteered at a food bank in washington. the president, first lady michelle obama and their daughters and the president's mother-in-law helped distribute bags of food. >> how have you been? >> how are you? happy thanksgiving. >> there you go. hello. happy thanksgiving. how are you? you look like you are doing great. happy thanksgiving. there you go. hello.

how are you doing? happy thanksgiving. happy thanksgiving to you. what is your name? >> that is my grandson. >> hay. what's going on, man? happy thanksgiving. there you go. how is it going, young man? happy thanksgiving to you. how are you?

good to see you. there you go. happy thanksgiving. >> next, a view from texas on the security of the southern border. the recent surge of on document at immigrants and some of the resources that are needed. this discussion was part of the fourth annual texas tribune festival at the university of texas in austin.

>> i'm very happy to welcome everyone to the fourth annual texas tribune festival. to our panel today, what to do with the dreamers. george abela are dor. website -- veronica escobar. the county judge of el paso county. she became the top elected official in texas's sixth largest county in 2011. directorabby, program of the national college scholarship fund for undocumented students called the

dream. u.s.. she became the first undocumented latino to testify before congress. [applause] we also have george rodriguez, the south texas coordinator of the tea party patriots. he cohosted a show on raging elephants. in 2011, he became the first hispanic president of a major tea party group when he headed the san antonio tea party. we also have with us congressman mark vicci, who represents congressional district 33 in the u.s. house of representatives. he has been an outspoken supporter of comprehensive

immigration reform. in 2013, he invited an undocumented immigrant from texas, one of the first undocumented students to pursue a higher education in texas, right here at ut austin, to be his guest at president obama's state of the union address. our discussion today will last 60 minutes and we'll include time for 15 to 20 minutes of questions from the audience. i'd like to ask everyone to please silence your phone. in june of 2001, texas became the first state in the country to adopt a law allowing undocumented students to pay in-state tuition rates to attend public universities. there have been efforts in the legislature to repeal this law since then, but all of them have failed so far. conservative activists and lawmakers will try once more this coming legislative session to stop what has become known as the texas dream act.

the texas republican party's official 2014 platform calls for repealing the law. nationally, meanwhile, comprehensive immigration reform has stalled in washington, as dreamers and other advocates are pressing congress for an overhaul that would create a formal path to citizenship for young people who came here as children. dreamers have become an influential political voice, appearing on the cover of time magazine and playing a key role in shaping immigration policy. gabby, i'd like to start with you, if i could. >> sure. >> who are the dreamers, and how many are there in the united states? >> so there are about 2.1 million dreamers who came to the united states when they were children. they are usually categorized as people who came to the united states before the age of 16. we have seen different d.r.e.a.m. act legislation. the majority of the students do follow that criteria.

these are students that have gone through our public school systems. these are students that identify with the american culture, that categorize themselves as americans, and they seek the opportunity to be able to one day be able to get a green card and hopefully, after five years, apply for citizenship. >> congressman, if i could ask you, you've -- there's a lot of arguments out there for dreamers to get a path, a formal path to citizenship. i know you've made some of the economic arguments. what are some of the economic arguments that you would make? >> i think some of the biggest economic arguments that one could make is, you know, most of the dreamers are educated here in texas. and they have gone to our public schools. their parents have paid taxes, sales tax and other taxes, and they're educated here.

but, you know, people don't want to give them a path to citizenship so they can even be more productive citizens in our society. and i just -- to me, that doesn't make any sense for us not to want to do everything we can to let that talent come out of the shadows and even make the american economy stronger. and to me, it just makes sense to give these dreamers chance. and many of these dreamers even want to serve in the military an contribute to our national security. why not give them that opportunity, when they want to participate like everybody else? >> george, let me get you to jump in here. what is wrong with hb 1403 in texas? >> let me get the skunk on the table and just ask the question. what part of the word illegal do you not understand? the problem we've got is illegal immigration. here we go. you want to let me talk?

the problem that we've got is illegal immigration. the only way we're ever going to stop illegal immigration is to stop having magnates in the united states. this texas dream act is one of those. the other thing we've got to stop is to stop apologizing for being conservative, for being americans. and somehow feeling that we are going to be the orphanage for the rest of the world. we can't do that. the reality is that we need to remove as much of this emotion, because everybody has got a sob story, everybody. there are billions of sob stories in the world about people who want to come to the united states. and that's understandable. we are the greatest country in the world. but at what point do we say we control who comes in and who doesn't, and why we have all sorts of excuses, while we have all sorts of allowances, all sorts of justifications, for anyone, regardless of what age they came to the united states

illegally, that's the problem. and what we've got right now, you cannot enter a spurs game without a ticket. you can't enter a ut game without a ticket. why is that different for entering the united states? >> commissioner, can i ask you to jump in? >> well, you know -- >> are george's views on the extreme end of the republican party or is it on the mainstream? >> if you take all republican voters, i think -- and the term extreme was -- let's say far right. let's don't say extreme. i think if you take all voters, he's to the right, considerably to the right. correction. if you take all voters -- i'm confusing myself here. all voters -- primary voters, he's in the middle. but my point, i'd like to ask george, though, is we talk in these, you know, black-and-white -- first of all, they're illegal but they didn't break any laws when they came here.

george, do you have any kids? if you went to rob a bank and carried your six-year-old with you, would they be guilty of bank robbery? [applause] >> robbing a bank is still robbing a bank. it's breaking the law. >> but the child didn't break the law when they -- >> the child has got to be taken away, though. >> here's an interesting -- >> no, no. what you are saying is that because i commit the crime, then for some reason, the child is not responsible? but we're -- >> that's exactly what i'm saying. [laughter] >> what we're talking about here is not that type of a situation. it's that they have come in illegally. >> they did not. the child did not. >> they did -- >> the child did not. the parents came in illegally. >> they were brought in as contraband. >> you're saying -- you're saying -- the children were brought in illegally?

>> they are here illegally. what part of that don't you understand? >> i'll grant you that. i'll grant you that. i grant you that their status is illegal, but those who were brought here when they were below the age of majority by their parents broke no law, so in other words, when i hear this -- >> so in other words -- >> when i hear this mantra -- >> so they're innocent? >> yes, they are. >> and we're gonna leave them alone? >> i didn't say that, george. let me finish. they are here illegally. they broke no laws. there is a distinction. if they are here illegally, i agree with you on that. they didn't break any laws coming here. what are we going to do about it? the real question is, what are we going to do? and if -- >> to prevent any more from coming. we have a situation near el paso where a two-year-old child was sent out, just across the border. now, how are you going to keep that from happening anymore? >> you know, you -- >> can you answer?

what do we do? >> do we deport them? >> i would -- hey, until you enforce the law as strong as possible, you are always going to have illegal immigration. >> but my question is, the topic is dreamer, what do we do? do we deport them? >> i would say yes. >> okay. there you have it. >> i would say yes, because the same argument that mark made a little while ago about how beneficial they are for the united states, the same argument can be made about them going home to their native lands. they can be beneficial to their home lands. >> here's the point. i want to carry on that. so you have boldly -- and i admire you for doing this. you have boldly -- >> because i'm the only one that will speak this way. >> no. >> yeah! all the politicians are afraid. >> you have boldly taken a position. i admire you for doing so. i like people to stand up and have a belief system. you have advocated that we deport the dreamers. what about the other illegals, undocumented here?

>> until we deport everyone -- >> so your position is we deport 12 million people. do you want to live in a country that has enough police power, in light of what happened at ruby ridge, in light of -- >> i want jerry to repeat that. you're saying that the cops are bad? >> i'm saying that too many federal cops are bad. >> okay. all right. >> i have faith in my local law enforcement, in the dps, in the county, in the city. i don't have as much faith in federal law enforcement, because i've seen what they do. atf is a classic example.

>> can you talk about your own status and views and thoughts when george was talking about what to do with the dreamers? >> currently i have a program called d.a.c.a. it allows me to be in the country with a lawful presence for two years. it's renewable. and in december, i'll be renewing that. and if i was to be given a chance to get in line, which is another line that we usually hear, i would do it. i would gladly do it. i don't think anybody in the country -- he doesn't have the -- we do not like living in fear. we do not like being afraid of calling the police when there's a disturbance, because we're afraid they're going to ask us for our documentation. we also don't like not knowing that -- the uncertainty of what's going to happen to us tomorrow, not being able to contribute, not being able to -- in texas alone, in 2010, the unauthorized were providing about 1.6 billion dollars in taxes. and today, when i was buying my lunch, the guy, nick, i didn't get to say, hey, nick, i'm undocumented, please do not tax me.

that's just not a reality, right? we pay taxes. we're contributing members to the society. [applause] and i think that one of the things that's really simple, if we talk about it, like george was saying, a ticket. right? but there are people that are standing in the line, that are saying, come in. and our people in businesses saying let's go. you know, we need more people to work here. and it's -- this is not as simple as somebody having a ticket or not. the reality is that the united states has broken immigration laws. the reality is that there is a magnate and it's called businesses and it's called politicians who do not want to fix this issue. for us to just put it so simple when we know this issue is very complex -- yes, this issue creates a lot of emotions, because we're not just talking about a number. we're not talking about 1 million people -- 12 million people, we're talking about individual lives, mothers and

fathers and workers, individuals like myself who have a degree, who is contributing, wants to be a lot more, but is limited because there is no system. there is no way for me to get a green card. i got d.a.c.a. when i was given an opportunity to get some sort of status. but there's nothing else from that. so i think that for too long, even i think the argument that george makes is an emotional one. it's not a rational one that opens up for dialogue and opens up to have our elected officials, like ted cruz, who doesn't necessarily bring a solution. deporting 12 million people is not a solution. we're not going to be able to do it. we don't have the manpower. we don't have the dollars. and frankly, there are a lot of people who are hiring undocumented people that want to be able to have those people have legal status because they know what a good workforce they are. but they can't.

>> congressman, do you hear a version of george's argument among the republicans in congress, or do you hear something different? >> i mean, there are certainly members of congress -- i mean, the congressman from iowa, you know, steve, he's a perfect example of someone that probably would line up -- >> you hear it in the black community? >> in the black community, is that i think president obama has done an outstanding job in making sure that people come together and understand that this is an important issue, people of all races. as a matter of fact, there was a poll i saw earlier this year that showed just how high immigration reform was as far as being able to get a pass in the african-american community. it had overwhelming support in the african-american community. i would say that the president has done a good job. and i think that, you know, as more people speak out about the importance of comprehensive

immigration reform and they see what it does for the economy and they understand -- i mean, there are, in a lot of the african-american communities, in fort worth that i represent, and all around the state of texas, you know, the kids live and go to school there, you know, at dunbar high school, predominantly african-american high school. people are friends with one another. many people in the african-american community have lived with neighbors that are undocumented for years now. and so i would say that -- so i would disagree with you on that. but, yeah, there are members of congress absolutely that do take those extreme positions. >> george, were you saying that the black community would side with the republicans on this? >> and you can deny it all you want. deny it all you want, because i have been informed where black residents have stood up and been

very, very angry about the issue of amnesty and open border. i know for a fact that when the city of houston -- when harris county was preparing to open a site for undocumented minors in one community, there were black residents that were fit to be tied that called out congresswoman sheila jackson lee on it. and that was on youtube. i'm not sure why -- other than you're playing politics, and this is the problem with this whole issue, is you're playing politics rather than -- >> let me say this. i think that there is a lot of education that needs to go on. again, the president has done a great job of bringing everybody together. but oftentimes, particularly because texas is a border state, people oftentimes think of this as a hispanic or a latino issue. but guess what? if you go to new york city, the people living in new york city that are undocumented, many of them look like me.

and some of these kids that have been coming over from central america, from honduras and places like that, many of them are black. some of them are black. and so, again, once people are educated on the issue and see how this is a global issue, that it's not just about one region of the world, i think that many of the people that have tried to turn this into a racial issue, they've only centered on mexico and central america, but this is a global issue that is affecting many people around the country. and many of those are black as well. >> george, how hard is it going to be to convince voters like george that we need to keep the texas d.r.e.a.m. act, and it does not need to be repealed, at a time when there is this sort of momentum to -- some of the arguments that george was making, like how do you try to keep the law on the books?

>> right. well, i think as a texas businessperson, i think my perspective is maybe a little bit different. i've had a business for a little bit over 20 years. and so i've had to be pretty pragmatic. i've met over 600 payrolls in that period of time. so i understand the importance of bringing the sides together and making things -- you know, being practical. in that regard, i know that, as a businessperson, all of us in texas really benefit from having an educated workforce. i think the value of that is really underestimated and not really discussed enough in this discussion. i think we as a society benefit by having a more inclusive and more educated workforce that can maximize the potential. i think also, on a pragmatic side, we're spending about $8600 a year to educate each of our students in texas. and so to spend that kind of investment, and then when you get to the college or the

university level, and let them at that point not have the opportunity to continue their education, i think we're losing out on the potential, you know, not just their individual potential but their collective potential and thus as a society. i think everybody wants a piece of the pie, but -- and there's a piece there, but collectively, the more educated we are and the more involved and the more of these resources that we can use, we're going to have a bigger pie. and that's what it's about. the reality of 1403 kind of stems from -- we're talking about less than 1% of the students in the colleges and university. about 80% of them are actually junior college students. we're spending a lot of energy focusing on this one suggest. this is not a voting population, so it's easy for them to be picked on and kind of bullied -- >> george, can you talk on that a little bit, about why spend so much concerted energy on an

issue that effects less than 1%? >> it is the magnet. it is a magnet. contrary to what has been said, the immigration laws are not broken. they're not being enforced. they're just not being enforced. they're not broken. the headache that we've got, my friends -- and i worked on the 1986 law myself -- i have seen how businesses are not fined or punished for hiring illegal aliens. so while you've still got that, the illegal aliens are going to come, obviously, because they can work. the other issue is, as far as workers go, a workers program goes, the other issue is that we've got to not only enforce the law to stop illegal immigration and illegal workers coming in, we've got to do something about the welfare reform, because there are a lot of people sitting home watching jerry springer who could be out there working. and that's the headache that we've got.

>> let's focus on these kids. >> jerry springer? >> let's focus on these kids. these are the ones that have gone to our local schools. >> okay. go ahead. i'll go after. >> the headache that we've got in the issue of workers is that when we did a study in california, in the -- in 1985, to see how it would work to get illegal aliens out of the fields and folks that were on welfare out to work, we found that the comparison of somebody receiving benefits to somebody out there working was almost the same. so why -- they're not dumb. why get out there in the sun when you can get welfare benefits? >> george? >> okay. the point is that we have these children that are in our schools, in our neighborhoods. these are kids that have grown up here.

they've gone through the adversities that it has taken to complete their education. a lot of them are working to support their family while they're going through high school. a lot of them are valedictorians, community leaders. what gets twisted about the argument with 1403 is that it's about taking someone's seat in that classroom. so 1403 is strictly on finance. they've already gone through the admission process, through their own volition, through their own achievements. they've already been accepted. 1403 is strictly about whether they're going to pay in-state tuition or out-of-state tuition. these are texas residents that have been here more than three years -- >> they're illegal. they're illegals. >> okay. i'm going to complete. so the argument we hear about repealing 1403 is that they're taking space away from other students. that's not a valid argument. that's an admission issue, not 1403, which is strictly finance. so these are students that are

already paying an additional price, because there are requirements for their being able to be in state. it's a three-year requirement until of a typical person from another state, which is a one-year requirement. the requirements are already tougher for them to meet. i think, as a society, for us to turn our backs on these students that have been raised in our backyards and have gone through our public schools, that we've had this investment for, to turn around and tell them they don't have the opportunities -- i came as an immigrant from cuba. i've had the opportunity to achieve the american dream and i live it every day. i want to turn around and try to help as many people as i can. this is why i am, as a private citizen, on this panel, and starting this initiative to help these other students that need that helping hand. they don't need a boot. they need a hand. [applause] >> judge?

>> you and i had a conversation right before the panel started, and it's pretty remarkable that we are even having this conversation, because when you look at texans like gabby, these are people you want in your state. these are the very young talented leaders that make our communities strong, that make our educational systems strong, that make our country strong. and the fact that we are even talking about what to do with the dreamers is really stunning. and it's unfortunate that in our state we keep going backward. in fact, we don't take the long view forward. excuse me, sir. we rarely have the long view forward. and so when you think about the long term in your state, you want a talented, educated workforce, so that you can be competitive. when you're saying that people like gabby should be deported -- and where i will agree with george is we do have to take the emotion out of the argument. when you take the emotion out of

the argument, there's no rational reason why we should go down this path. the more money that we invest in deportation or boots on the ground or various other republican measures that try to create a crisis where there is none, it's not just a waste of taxpayer resources, but what we're doing is putting a strain on the very taxpayers who are wanting a competitive state, who are wanting to be able to progress. and so i think part of what we need more of, frankly, is more of what we saw, really exciting human drama just moments ago, where the commissioner pushed back on a member of his own party that is trying to pull the state backward. >> commissioner -- >> backward? >> several things. my memory is not very good, but i agree with george on some points. i'm sure we agree -- and i disagree with the judge here about the false crisis at the border. we have a crisis at the border and it's got a new dynamic now.

it's called terrorism. it's not just on this border. it's on the border that comes in with the commercial airlines. but when george says that we have -- that there's nothing wrong with the immigration system, that's the most bizarre statement, respectfully george. the maximum number of immigrants allowed into this country on an annual basis for iceland is the same as it is for mexico. mexico is a population of 125 million. iceland, 350,000. how is that a system that you can defend? you can't. it's not a system. it is broken. it's nonexistent. and it doesn't serve our needs. let me finish. the immigration system, number 1 consideration should be that which serves our needs in in country. no other country. not in mexico, not in central america, not in iceland. if it happens to benefit them,

that's fine. but it's supposed to benefit us first. when you say, well -- and i saw this in recent campaigns. we had four candidates in a race recently. not one of them supports deportation of the 12 million that are here. i know of no republican, including steve king, and i could be wrong, that supports deportation. it is a fact. they are here. we need to deport the coyotes, the criminals. but to say we're going to do wholesale deportation is intellectually dishonest, because it ain't happening. furthermore, 1403 is an economic deal. it's in-state tuition. if you say we're not going to allow them to have in-state tuition, but they're going to be able to pay regular tuition, which is still subsidized by taxpayers in texas, it's intellectually dishonest. i was in the marine corps. i was in vietnam. i served with young men who were

illegals and they were damn fine marines. and they ought to have a right to stay in this country. military service is a pathway to legal status. i think you agree with that. do you? >> no, i don't. >> well, you wrote that in the column you wrote to the san antonio express news. [applause] i've got a copy of it right here. you said that in your column. but the problem with military service is that can only serve a certain number. i support them doing something to make their status legal. and, you know, community service, military service. go ahead. i'm sorry. >> let me tell you, the problem, again, is illegal immigration. we will always have illegal immigration while we've got magnets. >> i don't disagree. >> why are you trying to -- >> what do we do with the 12 million that are here and the two million -- >> if we enforced the law, they would go home. >> no, they're not. are you going to go home? >> no. >> there you go.

[applause] >> okay. i think we're getting somewhere. the only way she's going to go home -- the only way she's going to go home is if we deport her. >> she would go home if there was no employment. >> no. >> if she could not get employment. >> there are statistics that show that people who are in extreme poverty usually stay home. it is a courageous, super courageous act to leave the united states. my parents left behind everything, a comfortable family, a home, everything. but they did it because they love their children so much. they wanted to give us a future. that takes courage. >> that's fine but -- >> and we came and -- let me finish. we came to the united states. my parents -- >> did you or did you not come the wrong way to the united states? >> no. we came with a legal visa. >> and now what? so why are you illegal even? >> because our system is broken.

it's not working. >> you broke the law. >> we overstayed our visa. >> if that's the definition of illegal that you're using for someone who is not documented, we've all broken the law at some point. if that's what -- all you're hanging on to, then you are clearly hanging on to the most emotional part of the argument. >> talking about -- what are you talking about, illegal? >> i just want to say, specifically on the education part, right, so the dream act is a scholarship program for dreamers. it is privately funded. from the many family in the united states who are more affluent who have started this and have given, we have $33.5 million in the fund and it's growing. and the scholarship program is giving opportunities for dreamers and many of them here in texas to go to our texas schools. in dallas, in houston, and the

rio grande area in el paso. we do that because we understand the power of education. it is said that people who go to college are most likely 80% more to give into taxes. also, for people who are -- the majority of the immigrants, their average income is $36,000. and if you don't give them the opportunity to pay in state, usually that's about $20,000 a year that they would have to stay. nobody, no family could be able to afford that. so i think that the arguments for the education part are there. i don't really think that anybody that loves their country, loves where they live, their community, would be against anybody that has the heart and desire to either serve in the military or go into college and receive an education, that they can be against somebody wanting to fulfill that dream. >> commissioner, the 2014 republican party of texas platform calls for the repeal of the texas d.r.e.a.m. act.

do you support that, or are you against that? >> i think the texas d.r.e.a.m. act is a symbol. it's not substantive in this debate. here's the problem with the texas d.r.e.a.m. act. texas had to do something. the problem is on a federal level. the federal level, the congress. and it's not going to happen as long as obama is president, because we are so polarized there. it needs to fix it on a federal level, where there is a method for those who are here, who are illegal, who did not break our laws in coming here, to obtain legal status. military service is clearly one that would work, but that's not available to everyone. there needs to be a method for those who did not break our law when they came here to achieve a status where they won't have to worry about a state legislature passing an in-state tuition bill for those who are not documented who are here. >> would you want to see it stay on the books?

>> i would want to see it stay on the books for the mere symbolism of it, because where our head is in the sand -- because if we say, okay, we're going to repeal 1403, then the question that follows is, okay, what do you do with those that are here? you can have all these platitudes and all these lines in the sand. until you say, okay, fine, this is what we're going to do with the 12 million illegals, or the two million dreamers, you're just arguing in sophistry about it. >> let me say this. and mention that it's not going to happen because of the president. a comprehensive immigration reform bill has overwhelmingly passed the senate. we can pass one in the house tomorrow. and i have a very good feeling that he would sign it. but the problem is that boehner will not let a bill go to the

house floor because of cancer losing in the republican primary, because the republican primary -- i mean, you saw the ads during the lieutenant governor's race where they were using outlandish language like invasions and things like that. and until the more extreme elements like the tea party -- >> extreme again. >> -- gets out, taking over the republican primaries, we're going to continue to have this problem. when cancer lost, the republicans decided they weren't going to do any more immigration reform for the rest of the year. that's where we're at right now. doesn't have anything to do with the president. >> the problem with the immigration reform bill was it was too big a bite for the republicans to accept, because it included a path to citizenship. that's not going to -- we're not ready for that now. and the other thing, i would say to you is that, you know, our congress is afraid. all politicians are afraid. but the rhetoric in the

lieutenant governor primary was focused on border security and i'm in complete agreement with that. a nation that cannot secure its borders is not a secure nation. >> our borders are secure. >> our borders are not secure. >> they are not secure. >> i think there's a clear difference in education, whether you're for moving forward with educating our texans or whether you're going to go backwards and reduce funding for education, and reduce the ability for these dreamers to have an opportunity to get a college education. i think that's the clear difference in the lieutenant governor's race. i think whether we're going to move forward or becomewards. >> there was no policy difference. all four candidates were in favor of the guest worker program. but the perception was in line with what george is advocates. perception carries the day, not reality.

there wasn't a damn bit of difference. it's public record. >> how focused is the tea party on repealing the texas d.r.e.a.m. act? >> very. we are very focused, very adamant. and contrary to what everybody believes that we're extremists, we represent the majority of what the american people want, not what latinos, not what blacks -- not any subcategory. what the american people want. >> no. >> no. >> no. >> and let me tell you something. >> okay. just to illustrate to you why he's wrong on that -- [applause] >> -- again, comprehensive immigration reform overwhelmingly passed. i think it had over 70 votes, well past the 60 votes needed to break the filibuster. if there was a comprehensive immigration reform deal on the house floor today, it would

pass. john boehner won't let a bill on the house floor. it would pass in a bipartisan fashion. if you look at all the polls out there, most business leaders, the american people as a whole, african-americans, latinos, believe that we should have immigration reform. and so i don't agree with his sentiment that they're in the mainstream of america. i think most people would agree, and i think that we have freedom of speech in this country, and he certainly has the right to express his opinion as he feels. but when you use words like invasion and things like that, and you don't correct people when they use that sort of language, like the tea party -- >> that's what you call it. >> like the tea party hasn't, then you're going to be put in the extreme category. and i think that -- >> tell me what it is then. if you ask the -- if you ask people across the board, do you believe in amnesty? yes, no? you're going to get a lot of no's.

if you ask them, do you believe in securing our borders? you're going to get the majority yes. but when you get down to the details is where george loses his argument, because i spoke to a lot of crowds and at the end of the evening, i had them on my side, because i went into details and i didn't stop at the cliches and two-word bumper stickers. there's more to it. our current system encourages more illegal immigration. we used to have a circular illegal immigration, nonetheless illegal but people would come here and work and go home to their families. they can't do that anymore, because it's too difficult to go back and forth across the borders. so what do they want to do? bring their families here. our current system encourages more illegal immigration and until we have a guest worker program, not a path to citizenship, where it's the guy that's working in the restaurant, the guy that's working -- you know, doing drywall, framing, working landscape, who wants to come here and do it and go home, we are going to continue to have this.

i want my border patrol, i want them chasing narko traffickers, not chasing the guy in the hotel. that's what we need to do. >> why have so many texas republican leaders been, i guess, sort of afraid of coming out strongly and agreeing with you and saying, look, we need to keep the law on the books or not? why is there a little bit of -- >> it's fear. i mean, it's patently fear. it's too much of this and not enough of this. and frankly, it's also -- you know, i lost badly, you know. however, if i'd have had sufficient funds, i think it would have been a different story. that's a whole 'nother story. if you go over it in detail and don't do cliches, they will follow. there's just not enough people doing that.

>> we keep revisiting these old issues, you know. when texas passed the d.r.e.a.m. act, it was -- they had bipartisan support. it was overwhelmingly supported. governor perry signed it into law. here we are years and years later, moving backward. same thing with the border issues. keep trying to find some group to demonize, some kind of red meat to make it seem like i'm going to be out there fighting for you. and frequently, it's the border. it's immigrants. it's hispanics. and so it will take, i think, a lot more of the internal debate among the republican party to say, we've got to keep -- we've got to stop going backwards like this. >> the democrats are the problem, because they keep -- >> i would say both. >> i would say both. >> both. >> i would say both.

>> raising the hispanic issue, like this is a hispanic problem, he's already said it. it's not a hispanic problem. yet that's what they keep saying. they've run on the idea of it. >> the majority of the people undocumented are not latino. >> i just wanted to add a point. >> it's not a hispanic issue. this will be the -- the 1403 would apply to anyone, not just hispanics. so the issue of having someone -- the ability to come and achieve the dream of an education so they could better their lives and society as a whole would benefit, that's not a hispanic issue. so i would still be here on this stage if we were talking about canadians, if we were talking about french. it doesn't matter. it's the ability to have someone enjoy that american dream, that have lived in our neighborhoods, that work in our grocery stores, work at our restaurants.

>> the right way. >> these kids that, through no fault or choice of their own, are being excluded, because they don't have a piece of paper that they didn't have the ability to get. >> i'd like to ask gabby a question. you know, the term "go back and get in line," do it the right way. we're tired of people cutting in line and bumping out those that are doing it the right way. if there were a line in encounter country of origin, would you go there and get in it? >> yes. that's all we're asking. >> that's the point. there is no line. even if you go back to the country of origin, there is no line, because the immigration system has not -- does not allow it. i'd like to say it. iceland has the same quota as mexico. >> let me say thing about that. through the deferred action for childhood arrivals program, there is this thing called advance parole. if they give it to you, you're able to leave the country and come back in.

some say be careful, because we don't know yet, but a lot of students that have visas waiting for them in their home countries have been able to ask for advance parole and get their green considered. before d.a.c.a., that was not available. there are currently four million people in the nation that could right now get a legal status, but they can't because of arbitrary laws that have been put in place in 1996, the three and ten-year bar, one of them, and people are willing to do whatever it takes, if it is going back to their home country, to come back and get a green card. i wanted to add something to what veronica was saying about going backwards. i do believe in this issue, trying to repeal 1403, we are going to go backwards. texas was the first state to do in-state tuition, along with california. i think texans should be very proud of that, because they led the nation. they saw that they had an issue.

they saw that there was a lot of latinos -- and yes, this affects the majority latinos. and i think usually when it's talked about, that's who we talk about. but a lot of young people were dropping out of high school. they turned 16. they said, well, i can't go to college. why continue? so they said, i'm going to go into the workforce and go to work. well, 1403 changed that around and has allowed for hundreds and thousands of students to be able to go to school. it's less than 1% of the population but at least it's helping people. there is a student from ut austin that i saw recently in washington d.c., and she has her master's degree in pharmacy. he's in washington, d.c. doing a residency there at the children's hospital, making ut austin proud. going out and fulfilling her dream. but also contributing to the society, being there, being able to help and support. since 2001, we have 21 states

that have passed this, similar in-state tuition legislation, and just last year -- actually, just this year, we have had florida and the florida governor realize, hey, i need to do something about this. and i need to show latinos that i'm serious about immigration or at least this issue. what did he do? he went behind it, the people that submitted it were both republicans, in the house and the senate. so some republicans are realizing that being against things like in-state tuition, 1403, it's really going to hurt their party. and the majority of the population is for it. new jersey did it. virginia did it. maryland did it. and the states continue to add. they've realized this is a good thing, and even if we don't talk about immigration, it's a good economic thing. it's a good thing for the country and for just the young people that live within the communities that are going to be affected. they get the opportunity to go to school. >> thank you.

i think i'm going to open it up to questions, because we're getting towards that time. so there should be a microphone there. and so if you can address your questions, either to the whole panel or to a specific panelist. and speak up into the microphone. >> sure. i would like to address my question to representative -- i mean -- excuse me. mr. rodriguez, and i would like to take the possibility of deportation, the 12 million people off the table, since that's not really a possibility. and i would like to ask you, why is it okay for -- if this in-state tuition bill is repealed and these students have to pay more, why is it okay for those students to pay that money? why is it okay for the government to take -- and i hate to use your word -- but illegal money? >> the government is taking illegal money? >> in the form of sales tax. >> they shouldn't be here anyway. hey, they've got to pay

something. [laughter] >> they need to pay something. [laughter] >> i have a -- >> do you really believe what you say, or do you just say things to be provocative? i mean, really. this is so absurd, the things that come out of your mouth. it's beyond absurd. it's astronomical. >> it's okay for them to pay out of state tuition, but not okay to pay in-state tuition? >> they should pay out-of-state tuition because they're not residents. what don't you understand about that? >> residents is a geographic definition. these are texans. >> they are not. >> yes, sir. they are texans. they pay city and county and state taxes. >> so it doesn't matter that they entered the united states illegally? >> no, it doesn't. >> okay. if that is your definition. >> that is my definition. it's a geographic definition. we're talking about a geographic definition.

they've been here more than three years -- >> i feel that's wrong. >> but that's -- >> where is the gentleman that -- >> let's get the next question here. i'm sorry. next question. sorry. >> hi. my name is patty estrada, journalist from houston, texas. mr. rodriguez, by the way, wonderful last name. [laughter] so how are the dreamers hurting this country? give me just three examples. >> they're not necessarily hurting the country. they're not necessarily. they are just here illegally. >> but they are -- >> they are here illegally. okay? and the problem is illegal immigration. they are here because somebody brought them in illegally. okay. get back in line and come in the legal way. >> there's no -- >> lisa a right way and -- there's a right way and wrong way to enter the country. >> show me the line.

>> and my question for gabby. if you got your u.s. citizenship, what will be the first thing that you will do for this country? >> so i think one of the things that's really important to me, and it's funny. i dream of serving on a jury, because i feel that's a responsibility and i cringe when people try to get out of serving on a jury. they call in sick or say they don't want to. i think another thing that i would never take for granted is voting. i think that one of the reasons why we are where we're at is because not a lot of people vote and not a lot of people vote, not just in primaries but also during midterm elections. and i think that's really important. and i think that the other thing that i really want to do is show politicians what it is to be a true public servant. so my hope is to one day be able to have the opportunity to serve my nation, to serve my country,

my community, by becoming a public servant. [applause] >> when you say "my country," this country? >> yes, the united states. >> i have a question, a two-part question for rodriguez. but before i do, he made several statements at the beginning of the debate, that i would like to correct about. he said apologizing for being american and conservative. i think you can't just hijack what it means to be american, to label it just as conservative. i think we're all americans. there's many kinds of americans. there's black americans, native americans, white, latino, all kinds of americans. i think that's not right. first of all, that creating this sort of immigration, being a magnet to attract people to come here, i think that's incorrect. people are going to come here because this is a great country, full of opportunities. but, you know, the united states is number 17 in education and has a bad health care system. it has higher rates.

so i would like to, before you speak in front of a panel to say things that actually -- my question is, why won't conservatives embrace what it means to be american, embrace diversity and participate in a solution that brings a solution to this immigration problem, that opens ourselves to the world? it's silly to think we're just going to close the door and not let anyone in. and i want to know why the conservatives won't engage in a debate that will bring a solution, because we all are interested in finding a solution. >> okay. >> george? >> i'm not sure what you're really to go about in the sense that we're hijacking anything. >> well, you said that -- >> okay. wait a minute. wait a minute. wait a minute.

the solution that we see is, first of all, the first step has got to be to secure the border and to enforce the law. >> but that's being done. >> no, it's not. >> securing the border is being done. >> we disagree completely. >> there is zero illegal immigration coming from -- >> there you have it. >> but -- >> i thought you wanted my response? that's my response. my response is it's not happening, and it needs to happen. >> who says it's not happening? >> i'm at the border. i've seen it. >> you can't claim you've seen it, because you cannot claim anecdotal evidence. >> there are other people with questions. there's some other people with questions. i want to get some other questions here. >> hi. my name is deborah. i'll save you all 23 years of my family's immigration history, just to let you know that i benefited from hb 1403. i've been here since i was four years old.

i'm now 23. and i graduated from ut austin this past may. and the only reason i was able to attend this great university is because of in-state tuition for undocumented immigrants. i hate that you all keep saying illegal. but, you know, whatever. [applause] and i -- this panel is called "what to do with dreamers." you want to know what to do with us? let us use our degrees. let us give back to the communities that we live in and love. and give me a chance to stop fighting for in-state tuition, because i've been doing this for a while. i've been lobbying at the capitol and making sure that students like myself aren't robbed of our right to an education, and i hate that we waste so much time lobbying the halls of the capitol, trying to keep our in-state tuition, when we could be focusing on getting

licenses for our parents, guaranteeing them job security, making sure that i.c.e. stops rating our homes and work places. like let us focus on things that -- other things that matter. we have in-state tuition. stop going backwards. i just want to know, is anyone -- >> stop enforcing the law? is that what you're saying? >> no, no. not at all. i'm saying allow us to give back to our communities. >> let me ask you this question then. okay. let's say that we did go ahead and compromise and say, all right, let's give amnesty to the dreamers. what about the thousands of kids that recently came across or the millions that want to come across or that will be brought across in the future? what are we going to do with them? >> that's a good point. >> what are we going to do with them? where does it end? >> i think that's why we need to -- and i wish all the -- >> where does it stop? >> i wish all the energy that's

put on this debate to go back and forth is really put on congress to find a solution. >> no, no, no. congress works -- it's up to us to find a solution. >> well, they need to vote. they need to be doing -- >> we tell them what to do. they don't tell us what to do. >> well, the u.s. government, i was taught that it is congress that writes the laws, right? >> right. they write the laws based on what the people are telling them. >> and the people are telling them we need immigration reform. >> they're telling two things, that we need to secure borders and -- we need immigration reform. you can't have border security without immigration reform. >> so you wanted to know about being an american? american means being a nation of immigrants. we cannot try to hide the sun with one finger. we're lying to ourselves if we think that if we build these huge walls both in the southern

and northern border, that that's going to end. but what we do need is to figure out how to reduce the fact that we have 12 million people who are unauthorized or undocumented in this country. and we do need to realize that there are people gaining from the fact that there are people who are not here without a legal status. and a lot of those people include president obama, boehner, the democrats and republicans and politicians that use this issue as a political football to throw it back and forth. and that's just the reality. >> congressman, did you want to jump in on that, or -- >> i mean, whoa. again, what i would ask george is that, you know, if he thinks that we have a problem, then i would like for him to call boehner up. we go back in november and ask boehner to put a bill on the floor. you have tea party influence.

you could call some tea party groups. we need the speaker of the house and ask him to put a bill on the floor. >> no. we have asked -- >> you're saying we have a broken system. >> we have asked the president, your president -- >> that is divisive. >> and he has not chosen to do anything to enforce the laws or protect the border. that is a fact. >> george, he is your president. again, you should call your speaker of the house. >> the speaker is not going to put forward comprehensive legislation. it is not going to go forward because it is too big. what we need is enforcement at the border. >> as a fiscal conservative, let me ask you something.

you are saying you want to basically -- what you are talking about would be very extreme. it sounds like it would shut down the border. we do business with mexico. our economy is depend ept upon us being abling to have easy access between mexico and the united states. >> it is very funny that you would talk about fiscalness when democrats are the ones spending like crazy. >> again, how are you going to avert fiscal disaster by shutting down our border. >> jump in. >> the young woman, the recent graduate from u.t., congratulations, number one. number two, the university of texas at el paso where they actually expand the definition of who qualifies as a resident for in-state tuition. it is to the university's benefit to have these talented students be in the university.

citizens from across the border can enjoy the benefits of in-state tuition. we want for example and talent like you. come to el paso. we would love to have your talent. >> and the dream act is in el paso as one. it is one of our partner institutions. >> next question. >> i would like to bring up the fact that those who are undocumented cannot receive welfare. so whoever is sitting watching jerry springer who has social security number. they are getting paid low wages to be under the sun. it is not because they are dumb. they have to because they have to survive. i have been here since i was 1. when you say go home, this is my home. i literally don't know mexico at all.